Category: Debate
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Various Issues of Interest to the Debate
As I noted in my post “The Central Verses for the Doctrine of Hell,” there is a typical list of verses that are appealed to by the annihilationist. What this means in terms of the debate’s actual focus is still up in the air, of course, given that I have not yet heard what he intends to present, and likely will not, prior to the day. This is not problematic, of course, it just isn’t my typical modus operandi. If he sticks with a similar opener to that which he used with Diaz, I believe that he would …
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Furnaces of Fire and Outer Darkness
Another common argument made by annihilationists is from the imagery of the “furnace”, particularly in Matthew 13:42 and 50. As this is one of the parables Christ gives the most explanation of, we should be able to make a significant amount of headway in exegeting it properly. Date’s exegesis of this passage is significantly lacking – and as with the passages we’ve already looked at, I sincerely hope that what he has offered us thus far is not all that we’ll see, despite his statement that I am in possession of the entirety of his positive case. If this is …
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Point of Contact – Life, Death and Theology
Dealt with approximately 25 minutes of audio from three lengthy Theopologetics podcasts on annihilationism, the presuppositional commitments that are brought to the text, and on the basis of that reading, affect the theology they teach. Had Ben, Matthias, and Justin in with me at various points. We didn’t get to all of it, as we had a near catastrophic recording failure toward the end, where you will hear the audio quality/texture change, and I then make some comments specifically to Chris. Thankfully, it was recovered, and all was then right with the world. Take a listen.
Also, see this post…
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Material for Tonight’s Planned Podcast
Tonight, we’re planning on doing a pre-debate episode of “Point of Contact”, dealing with various theological issues encountered in past Theopologetics podcasts, episodes 72, 73, and 74, on the subject of annihilationism. The clips we’ll be interacting with are listed below, and are symptomatic of a common problem we’ve highlighted in response to various ~CT positions over the past several years – a seeming inability to consistently argue from – and against – a systematic theology as a unit.…
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Debate Q & A – and You!
Now that we’ve done some discussion and a bit of interaction with Chris’ position – and you’ve had the opportunity to really sit down and listen through what he has to say, and what he’s had his guests on to say, I’d like to encourage you to start formulating some questions for either Chris or I to answer.
…Be sure to email Dee Dee at preteristpodcast@gmail.com if you want to pose a question to either participant. The debate will be pre-recorded, so Dee Dee will be asking questions on behalf of those who send them to her in advance. Make
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You Don’t Want to be a Fish?
…50:46 Joey: You know, parables! As I bring up here. Some of the parables have almost nothing in them that actually transfers over. I bring up the parable of the fish, in Matthew 13:47-50. In that parable, it’s very brief, it speaks of a fisherman, he catches fish, the bad fish he throws away, the good fish he keeps. Now, the good fish represent the saved, but you do not want to be a fish! (Laughs) Just think about it, either way you get killed. And in fact, though I don’t know what fishing culture was like back in the
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How does Scripture describe punishment and death?
…(44:23) Chris: So what do you make of it? Is it the case that punishment, by definition, is consciously, ongoingly experienced?
Ronnie: Well, I mean obviously not. Well, the punishment for some sins is pain, the punishment in certain contexts is some sort of suffering. Scripture describes many different types of punishments for sin, so you have people being struck blind, you have people being made barren, you have people’s entire family line being wiped out, you have entire nations being wiped out. Yeah, so there’s many possible types of punishment, and Scripture describes a number of those punishments. The
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Think of how an Atheist views death…
…“Think of how an atheist views death, and what happens when we die; like, you don’t have a mind, you can’t think, you can’t feel, you have absolutely no conscious[ness] or awareness of anything, you’re simply a corpse. That’s essentially what we’re saying happens to people. They can’t be tormented, because, like if you poke a corpse with a knife, or set it on fire, no matter what you do to it, it’s not going to feel pain, or think, or anything. It’s just inert matter. That’s all that we necessarily are saying; now, whether the atoms are destroyed, like,
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Undying Worms and Unquenchable Fire
It is often asserted that there is a problem (for so-called “traditionalists”) with the use of Mark 9:48 due to it’s relation with Isaiah 66:24. This problem, according to Fudge, is that 1) Jesus quotes it “without amendment” 2) That the body is “already dead” and 3) That the fire “is a consuming, irresistible fire”. He relates “salted with fire” to mean the salting of a field, or of a place in order to make it uninhabitable. He cites Fields for his source, but we aren’t told, by Fudge, why this is supposed to have any connection with the passage …
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Matthew 25:41, Kolasis, and The Mediator
…(26:19) This phrase eternal fire is used again in Matthew 25:41, where Jesus says he will send those on his left into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. So they will be destroyed, just like Sodom and Gomorrah. He calls this eternal punishment a few verses later, but before you assume that this supports torment forever and ever, consider this. The word rendered punishment refers to a penalty of death in the Septuagint translation of Ezekiel 18:30-32, and in 2Maccabees 4:38. The verb form of the word likewise refers to being killed in at least a