Tag: atheism
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Dear Eldnar
The following comment and response may be found on this post.
…Hi there,
Some would take a leap and state that “this cause is God”, but such a leap is unwarranted.
*GASP* I’ve only heard two people *ever* try to say that the uncaused cause is not God, and you are the second of the two. Here’s what happened to the first person:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCUE10dY3Rc
There is nothing in the premises of the argument that necessarily leads to the conclusion that the cause of the universe is God.
True. But it points to God “beyond reasonable doubt”. A person can
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Answering the Argument from Horrific Suffering 4
Argument from Horrific Suffering
The exchange has taken place as follows: The Argument from Horrific Suffering for the Non-Existence of God (Mitch) / Answering the Argument from Horrific Suffering (Chris) / Bolt and Horrific Suffering (Mitch) / Answering the Argument from Horrific Suffering 2 (Chris) / Bolt and Horrific Suffering II (Mitch) / Answering the Argument from Horrific Suffering 3 (Chris) / Bolt and Horrific Suffering III (Mitch) / …Answers the Argument from Horrific Suffering (ZaoThanatoo).
Mitch notes that I am still challenging premise (4) of the following argument:
…Horrific Suffering (def.) = that most awe-full form of suffering that
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closed-minded, dogmatic, fundy Paul Manata engages open-minded, free-thinking, rational atheists
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Answering the Argument from Horrific Suffering 3
Argument from Horrific Suffering
Chris Responds to the Argument
In my last response I argued that Mitch did not provide support for (4):
(4) Necessarily, if God exists, there is horrific suffering only if its prevention would prevent there being finite persons who realize their deepest good.
Mitch suggests that he has offered the following as justification for accepting (4) as true:
…Looking at an analogous instance, it seems obvious that something has gone wrong when we are saying of the parent that
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Atheist, if You Are Deluded Then What Would You Expect?
If you are deluded then the evidence to the contrary, even if it is overwhelming, will not convince you otherwise. Just think of the Mormons. Perhaps you can explain to me why Mormons still believe even though it’s been shown through DNA evidence that Native Americans are not descendants of Semitic peoples: Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church.
Come on now. Think about this. Like the Mormons you have come to a position and you now defend that position in a Christian culture despite the evidence just like they do.
Great line of reasoning there …
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Answering the Argument from Horrific Suffering 2
Mitch originally posted an argument in summary fashion from J.L. Schellenberg found here which I answered here and Mitch subsequently responded to my answer here. There is much to be said about his response, but I will limit this post to focusing upon premise (4) of the argument and where Mitch has made some mistakes.
(4) Necessarily, if God exists, there is horrific suffering only if its prevention would prevent there being finite persons who realize their deepest good.
Mitch believes that the “denial of (4) seems quite the denial indeed.” On the contrary, I find the affirmation of …
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Answering the Argument from Horrific Suffering
Mitch LeBlanc has summarized an argument from J.L. Schellenberg called the Argument from Horrors. The argument begins by defining “horrific suffering.”
Horrific Suffering (def.) = that most awe-full form of suffering that gives the victim and/or the perpetrator a prima facie reason to think that his or her life is not worth living.
Schellenberg’s argument is then stated formally.
…(1) Necessarily, if God exists, finite persons who ever more fully experience the reality of God realize their deepest good.
(2) Necessarily, if God exists, the prevention of horrific suffering does not prevent there being finite persons who ever more fully
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Mr. White, Mr. Grey, and Mr. Black IV
In our last post, we examined the Romanist, “evangelical,” and putatively “Reformed” apologetic methods, as advanced by Jacques Maritain, Dr. Carnell and Charles Pinnock, and Dr. Sproul, and applied them to our discussion. In this section, we address Mr. Black, and begin to examine in greater detail the difference in approach that Mr. White and Mr. Grey have in their apologetic. This section comes from pgs 317-319 of Defense of the Faith.
…So also with Mr. Black. He daily changes the truth of God into a lie. He daily worships and serves the creature more than the Creator. He